Podcaster Sam Harris says the events that led to his fallout with Elon Musk included a bet over the number of U.S. COVID-19 cases.

Sam Harris has made no secret of the fact that he and Elon Musk had a falling out. But Harris was always loath to offer details as to why.

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Sam Harris is likening Elon Musk to a “clown” and offering an account of their ongoing rift. Harris, a neuroscientist-turned-philosopher and political pundit, has been the target of insults from the billionaire tech mogul for years now — and he said Wednesday that their feud began over a 2020 text message exchange due to clashing opinions on the likely severity of COVID-19.